Why Are Some Women Attracted to Serial Killers?

Episode Summary

Main Topics Discussed

• Exploring the phenomenon of some women's attraction to serial killers, specifically highlighting the case of Richard Ramirez (the Night Stalker) and his "groupies."
• The prevalence of true crime fascination, particularly among women, and the anecdotal observation that many women watch "murder shows" when home alone.
• An evolutionary theory suggesting a historical, DNA-level benefit to aligning oneself with "killers" for protection and survival in ancient, violent societies.
• A discussion on the historical trends of violence in humanity, referencing Stephen Pinker's work which posits a significant *decrease* in violence over millennia, despite modern perceptions.
• The overall human fascination with the "underworld" and extreme acts of violence, and how media consumption makes individuals "complicit" in this interest.

Key Insights & Memorable Moments

• Joe Rogan and his guest ponder the "weird thing" about the consistent attraction women show to notorious murderers, with no easy answer.
• The vivid example of Richard Ramirez, who became a "crazy sex symbol" with fans sending him propositions and explicit photos, despite his horrific crimes.
• Whitney Cummings' intriguing theoretical contribution about an "evolutionary benefit to getting close to killers" as a protective mechanism in our ancient past.
• The revelation from Stephen Pinker's book, The Better Angels of Our Nature, that historical murder rates (e.g., "50%" during Cain and Abel's time) were far higher than today, indicating humanity has become significantly less violent.
• The acknowledgment that mass media's focus on sensational violence ("if it bleeds it leads") skews public perception, making violence seem more common than it historically was.

Notable Quotes or Revelations

• Regarding the attraction to serial killers: "Why is that? I don't know it's a weird thing."

• Describing Richard Ramirez's notoriety: "This guy becomes like the Jim Morrison of serial killers."

• A stark reminder of the killers' nature: "This is somebody that would eat you for dinner."

• Whitney Cummings' theory: "She read that it was something that had to do with there was like a an evolutionary benefit to getting close to killers like that."

• Stephen Pinker's historical observation: "The murder rate is like 50% so actually we've been trending up ever since then [in terms of safety/less violence]."

• On media's impact: "If it bleeds it leads."

Overall Themes

The episode delves into the paradoxical and often irrational aspects of human psychology, particularly focusing on the unsettling attraction to extreme danger and criminality. It explores the interplay between deeply ingrained evolutionary drives, the impact of celebrity culture, and the role of mass media in shaping our perceptions and feeding our fascination with the darkest elements of society. The overarching theme questions why we are drawn to the "underworld" and the "worst things that people do to each other," suggesting both a primal curiosity and a reflection on our own complicity in consuming such narratives.