Joe Rogan Experience #687 - Justin Wren

Episode Summary

Main Topics Discussed

• Justin Wren's Return to MMA: Discussion around his comeback fight for Bellator 141 (August 28th on Spike) and the primary motivations behind it.
• Fight for the Forgotten: Justin's humanitarian organization (fightforforgotten.org, now water4.org partner) dedicated to helping the Pygmy people in the Democratic Republic of Congo (DRC).
• Water Crisis & Well Drilling: Detailed explanation of the manual well-drilling process used by Fight for the Forgotten, including the extreme physical labor, equipment, and challenges in Congo's terrain.
• Land & Food Security: Efforts to secure land ownership for the Pygmies and initiate agricultural projects to teach sustainable farming practices.
• Life in the Congo: Insights into survival, unique local practices (like using ants for sutures), the impact of diseases like malaria, and the stark underdevelopment of the region compared to neighboring countries.
• Philosophy of Aid: Critique of traditional aid models and the emphasis on empowering locals to be the solution to their own problems, fostering dignity and self-sufficiency.

Key Insights & Memorable Moments

• Justin Wren made a fighting comeback after 5 years and 2 months to raise awareness for the Pygmies and their cause.
• The astonishing revelation that malaria has killed half of all people who have ever died in the world, with Justin himself having nearly succumbed to it.
• A fascinating account of how army ants are used as sutures in the Congo to close wounds by having them bite and then detaching their bodies, leaving the mandibles to act as stitches.
• The contrast between the extreme underdevelopment of Congo (poorest country, 80-85% living on less than $1/day, least infrastructure) and the relative modernity of Uganda (KFC, 3D movies, charging stations).
• Fight for the Forgotten has successfully built 25 water wells, transitioning from Justin's direct involvement to empowering 17 full-time local employees across two drilling teams.
• The manual well-drilling method involves hiking over a ton of equipment (pipes, cement, heavy rock breakers) for up to 3 hours into remote villages, with each well taking 10 to 16 days to complete.
• The strategic decision to acquire 2,470 acres of land for the Pygmies, specifically in the name of the tribe, to ensure permanent ownership and respect within the Congolese legal system.

Notable Quotes or Revelations

• "Malaria has killed half of the people that have ever died ever in the world."
• (On ant sutures) "They're these army ants or soldier ants that literally they pierce your skin and so they'll just take it and let it bite a wound and then they pull the body off and so they leave the head leave the mandibles or the jaw that literally close your wound that way."
• "Our goal is to empower the locals to be able to do it themselves."
• (Critiquing some NGOs) "They'll go into a community and kind of say, 'you know, get back, uh, we're here to do this for you because you can't do it for yourself'..."
• "It's a fight to even get there to start the work and then once we dig, man, that's the biggest fight."
• "A lot of international aid tells the locals that they can't do it for themselves... you got to go about it in a way that that kind of creates dignity for the locals instead of kind of robs them of dignity."
• Joe Rogan: "If that's the case [all humans came from Africa], these people you're dealing with could very well be the oldest humans in the world... it's really a bizarre place."

Overall Themes

• Empowerment and Self-Sufficiency: The central theme is the belief in empowering local communities to solve their own problems, creating sustainable solutions rather than fostering dependence on external aid. This is exemplified by training local teams to drill and maintain wells and teach farming.
• Dignity and Respect: Justin's approach to humanitarian work prioritizes the dignity of the Pygmy people, ensuring they are active participants and leaders in projects like water well construction and land ownership, contrasting with aid models that can inadvertently disempower recipients.
• Resilience and Sacrifice: The episode highlights Justin's personal sacrifice (leaving a successful MMA career to live in harsh conditions) and the extreme dedication and physical resilience required by his local teams to bring essential services to remote and challenging environments.
• Overcoming Extreme Adversity: The narrative showcases the immense challenges faced by the Pygmy people (poverty, lack of resources, discrimination, disease) and the determination to overcome these obstacles through strategic, long-term interventions like securing land and providing clean water.
• Human Connection and Origins: The discussion touches on the profound connection to humanity's roots, with the Pygmies potentially representing one of the oldest human populations, underscoring the universal importance of their well-being and basic rights.