Joe Rogan Experience #336 - Scott Sigler

Episode Summary

Main Topics Discussed

• Scott Sigler's Unique Path to Publishing: The discussion extensively covers Sigler's unconventional strategy of releasing his books as free audio podcasts to build an audience, which eventually led to a print deal and major adaptations.
• The Adaptation of "Nocturnal" into a TV Series: Sigler details the surprisingly collaborative process of developing "Nocturnal" for television, contrasting it with typical experiences where writers lose creative control.
• Plot and Themes of "Nocturnal": Joe and Scott delve into the storyline of "Nocturnal," focusing on its buddy-cop procedural roots, a 200-year-old conspiracy within the San Francisco police department, and the concept of "fun corruption" for the greater good.
• The Reality of Being a Professional Writer: Scott Sigler debunks the romanticized view of writing, emphasizing the hard work, sacrifice, and continuous effort involved.
• Research in Fiction Writing: The importance of broad, rather than deep, research for thriller novels to weave a tapestry of reality and make the extraordinary believable.
• Critique of Literary Snobbery: The conversation touches on the disdain often shown by literary critics towards popular authors like Stephen King, highlighting the value of stories that resonate with a mass audience.

Key Insights & Memorable Moments

• Scott Sigler's initial success came from **giving away his audiobooks for free**, proving that direct audience engagement can circumvent traditional publishing gatekeepers.
• The rare instance of a writer, Scott Sigler, having **significant creative control** over a TV adaptation, attributing it to the producer Lloyd Levin's respect for the source material.
• The intriguing concept in "Nocturnal" of a **200-year police cover-up** where officers ignore the law to protect a group that eliminates serial killers, illustrating a morally ambiguous "greater good."
• Joe Rogan's anecdote about the **Miami Police Department's corruption** during the cocaine era ("Cocaine Cowboys"), serving as a real-world example of how power and money can lead to systemic corruption.
• Scott Sigler's writing technique of embedding **familiar, realistic cultural and scientific details** to build reader rapport, making the eventual "crazy shit" more plausible.
• The poignant discussion about the **"romance of writing" being "utterly overblown,"** emphasizing the "dungeon" of daily grind over fleeting moments of public recognition.
• The strong defense of **Stephen King's literary merit**, despite past critical snobbery, praising his ability to create unforgettable characters and immersive stories (e.g., the typography in "Misery").

Notable Quotes or Revelations

• "You know you're a bad ass when you look at the back of your book and it says a worthy successor to Michael Crichton." - Joe Rogan, on the praise for Scott Sigler.
• Scott Sigler on his start: "I started out giving all my books away as free audiobooks recorded myself chop them up as podcast give them away as podcast for free to build up an audience because I couldn't get anybody in New York... because my they don't well we don't know if you're horror we don't know if you're sci-fi..."
• Scott Sigler on TV adaptation control: "I've been shocked by it normally you have very little or no control at all... they've kept me involved in all phases of this."
• Joe Rogan on typical Hollywood interference: "It's one of the most frustrating things to listen to when you hear someone who had a vision and they they tried to express his vision to these other people that had the money and the people with the money like no no no no we got this we're going to f we need a girl you need a this you need a we need add a black guy..."
• Scott Sigler on the reality of writing: "The romance of it is so utterly overblown... it's a great effing job I don't want to do anything else I'm so happy to be doing it but yeah those moments of romance are like little tiny things that pop up every now and then."
• Scott Sigler on critical reception of popular authors: "All of this all this pompous arrogant shit about I'm writing art and you know what unless your book has sold 200 300,000 copies no one's going to remember your name in 50 years... the guys who are actually making stuff that resonates with people... they get they get shit on all the time."

Overall Themes

• Creative Entrepreneurship and Adaptability: Sigler's career exemplifies finding alternative routes to success when traditional paths are blocked, and adapting to new media (audiobooks, TV).
• The Morality of Power and Authority: The deep dive into police corruption, both fictional and real, highlights the ethical dilemmas and potential for abuse when individuals or institutions wield significant power.
• The Art vs. Commerce Debate in Literature: The conversation critiques the elitist view of "art" in literature, championing authors who prioritize engaging storytelling and audience connection over critical acclaim.
• The Illusion vs. Reality of Creative Professions: The episode demystifies the romantic image of a writer, underscoring the relentless hard work, discipline, and often solitary nature of the craft.
• Building Believable Worlds: The importance of grounding even fantastic narratives in relatable human experiences and plausible scientific or historical details to enhance reader immersion.