Joe Rogan Experience #2417 - Ben van Kerkwyk

Episode Summary

Main Topics

This episode delves into compelling evidence suggesting a highly advanced, lost precursor civilization existed far earlier than currently accepted, challenging mainstream historical narratives. Discussions center on the recent scanning of Egypt's Great Labyrinth, revealing a mysterious metallic object, and extensive geological evidence on the Giza Plateau (including the Sphinx) pointing to water erosion from a humid period thousands of years before dynastic Egypt. The conversation also explores sophisticated astronomical and geodetic knowledge encoded in structures like the Great Pyramid, and the distinct technological layers visible in South American megalithic sites such as Tiwanaku and Ollantaytambo, which defy conventional dating and construction capabilities. Ultimately, the hosts and guest advocate for open-minded exploration of these "alternative" theories and a reassessment of humanity's ancient past, acknowledging the cyclical nature of civilizations and the potential for cataclysmic resets.

Key Discussion Points

• The Great Lost Labyrinth of Egypt: Detailed accounts from antiquity by figures like Herodotus and Pliny the Elder describe a multi-level structure near Hawara, more magnificent than the pyramids. Rediscovered by Flinders Petrie in the late 1800s, who mistakenly believed he was on its foundation. The 2015-2017 Matahar expedition, using ground-penetrating radar, confirmed massive cyclopean walls 9-10 meters deep, with the report allegedly suppressed by Zahi Hawass. Recent space-based scans further indicate a structure 60-70 meters deep, with 3-4 levels, and a 40-meter "tic-tac shaped" metallic object freestanding in a central atrium.
• Re-dating the Sphinx and Giza Plateau: Geologist Dr. Robert Schoch's water erosion hypothesis for the Sphinx's body and enclosure walls points to thousands of years of rainfall, indicating it predates the desertification of the Sahara around 4000 BC, placing it possibly 12,000 years old or more. Evidence includes deeply eroded vertical channels and the less eroded face suggesting re-carving. Similar deep erosion is observed on the core masonry of the Giza Middle Pyramid complex. The discovery of the extinct, kilometer-wide Aramat branch of the Nile, which flowed past Giza's valley temples before 3500 BC, further supports a vastly older, wetter environment for these monumental constructions.
• Suppressed Discoveries and Tunnels in Egypt: Ancient Arab historians like Al-Masudi described tunnels beneath the Sphinx and pyramids. Edgar Cayce's 1940s psychic readings predicted a "Hall of Records" under the Sphinx. The 1995-1997 "Shore Expedition," involving Zahi Hawass and Mark Lehner, explored these areas, with its findings largely unreleased. Recently, footage emerged showing Zahi Hawass in a now backfilled tunnel beneath the Sphinx's rump, hinting at significant discoveries. GPR scans of the Osiris Shaft in the 1990s and 2000s revealed further unexplored tunnels extending towards the Sphinx and Great Pyramid, suggesting extensive hidden substructures.
• Sacred Geometry and Geodetic Data in the Great Pyramid: The Great Pyramid is presented as a scale model of the Earth's Northern Hemisphere at a precise 43,200:1 ratio, a number recurring in ancient cosmology (e.g., Sumerian King List, sun's radius). Its height, multiplied by this ratio, matches Earth's polar radius, and its perimeter matches Earth's equatorial circumference within hundreds of feet, aligning with modern satellite measurements. The pyramid also encodes Earth's oblate spheroid shape, with the ratio of its casing stone and sockle perimeters precisely reflecting the latitude-longitude ratio at the equator. This indicates an astonishing, pre-dynastic understanding of Earth's precise dimensions and cosmic cycles.
• Peruvian Megalithic Architecture: Peru's ancient sites, particularly in the Sacred Valley and at Tiwanaku/Puma Punku (Bolivia), exhibit three distinct architectural layers: deeply eroded, carved bedrock; precise, massive megalithic stonework (e.g., Saxsayhuaman, Ollantaytambo); and later, cruder Inca construction. The Inca (flourishing ~1200-1533 AD) are shown to have often rebuilt upon older, more sophisticated ruins, suggesting they inherited, rather than originated, much of the megalithic work. At 12,500 ft, Tiwanaku's intricate, precisely cut Andesite blocks and astronomical alignments (Posnansky's 15,000 BC dating via obliquity of the ecliptic) point to a civilization vastly older than mainstream archaeology accepts, possibly destroyed by cataclysmic mud floods.

Notable Moments

• Interesting Story/Anecdote: Ben recounts the bizarre story of Zahi Hawass being filmed in a secret tunnel beneath the Sphinx's rump during the Shore Expedition. Hawass declared, "Even Indiana Jones wouldn't believe that he was here. We're standing inside the body of the Sphinx. Nobody knows where this tunnel goes." This footage, later suppressed, resurfaced years later from a digitized VHS tape, revealing Hawass's dramatic claim before the tunnel was backfilled.
• Surprising Fact/Revelation: The revelation of a "tic-tac shaped" metallic object, approximately 40 meters long, found freestanding in a massive central atrium deep within the underground Labyrinth of Egypt. This object was detected using advanced space-based scanning techniques, and its nature and purpose remain entirely unknown, sparking speculation about advanced technology or even extraterrestrial origins.
• Memorable Exchange: Joe Rogan's passionate questioning of why mainstream archaeologists and authorities, like Zahi Hawass, "gatekeep" and suppress information that could redefine human history. He argues that embracing the mystery and new discoveries would boost tourism and scientific interest, rather than diminish the significance of ancient cultures, calling the resistance a "crime against humanity."

Key Takeaways

The episode powerfully argues for a re-evaluation of ancient history, suggesting that advanced civilizations likely existed, were destroyed by cataclysms like the Younger Dryas, and left behind enigmatic structures and encoded knowledge. The evidence from Egypt (Labyrinth's metallic object, Sphinx water erosion, geodetic data in the Great Pyramid) and South America (layered megaliths, Tiwanaku's ancient dating) consistently challenges accepted timelines. The reluctance of mainstream academia to consider these possibilities is highlighted as a barrier to understanding humanity's true origins and the cyclical nature of advanced societies, with the ancient concept of the "Shamir" (a rock-eating worm or substance) even hinting at lost, advanced construction methods.