Joe Rogan Experience #2058 - Elliott West

Episode Summary

Main Topics

This episode delves into the often-misunderstood history of the American West, highlighting the profound and rapid transformations that occurred between the 1840s and 1880s. Dr. Elliott West argues that this era of Western expansion, marked by resource acquisition, ecological shifts, and devastating disease, was as critical as the Civil War in forging modern America. The discussion emphasizes the complex, centuries-long interactions between Native Americans and Europeans, challenging simplistic narratives of initial contact and "empty" lands. It also explores the catastrophic impact of European diseases and the deliberate ecological remaking of the continent, which ultimately undermined Native ways of life.

Key Discussion Points

• Early European-Native American Cosmopolitanism: The conversation revisits the surprising history of early contact, noting that in the 1720s, a delegation of Missouria, Illinois, and Osage native peoples from the Kansas-Missouri area traveled to Paris with French explorer Étienne de Veniard, Sieur de Bourgmont. They met King Louis XV, visited the Paris Opera (which they described as "full of sorcerers"), and one woman even married a French sergeant, demonstrating sophisticated interactions well before Lewis and Clark's expedition in the 1800s.
• The Catastrophic Role of Disease in Conquest: West details how diseases, particularly smallpox, were an "incontestable" and "absolutely catastrophic" factor in the European conquest of North America, leading to population declines of 90-94% among Native Americans. He explains that smallpox was "democratic," killing all ages, and its secondary effects, such as the loss of productive adults, caused entire social and economic systems to collapse, making resistance far more difficult. The debate around syphilis's origins, potentially brought back by Columbus's crew from the New World in 1493, is also touched upon.
• Ecological Remaking and the Bison's Demise: The episode stresses that the Western third of North America was "literally remade ecologically" between 1850 and 1880, transforming the environment in ways that made traditional Native life unsustainable. The decline of the American bison began with Native American market hunting for buffalo robes in the 1820s, a popular fad in the East and Europe. However, the final, rapid destruction came in 1872 when it was discovered that bison hides could be processed into industrial leather, driven by a global shortage.
• The Comanche Horse Empire and the "Grass Revolution": A detailed account of the "grass revolution" and the rise of Native "horse cultures" is given. Horses, though originating in North America and becoming extinct, were reintroduced by the Spanish (Coronado in the 1540s). Post-1680, they spread explosively, enabling groups like the Comanches to form powerful empires across the Plains, dominating vast territories from Southern Canada to Mexico. This created a new "horse-man" entity that transformed warfare and economics, challenging European expansion until the advent of repeating firearms and overwhelming numbers.
• California Gold Rush and Genocide: West describes the California Gold Rush, starting in 1848 with "48ers" (Oregonians, Australians, Mexicans, Chinese) before the famous "49ers" arrived. This led to a "second conquest of California," where non-American miners were driven out, and a state-funded "killing machine" systematically eradicated California Indians for their gold-rich lands. This resulted in the Native Californian population plummeting from an estimated 150,000 in 1848 to 16,000 by 1900, one of the clearest cases of attempted genocide in American history.

Notable Moments

• Early Native American Impressions of Paris: The 1720s Native American delegation to Paris found the Paris Opera a place of "sorcerers" and described French men as "effeminate" and smelling "like alligators," offering a unique and humorous perspective on early European-Native cultural exchange.
• Origin of the Term "Big Wig": Joe Rogan shares the fascinating etymology of "big wig," explaining that it originated from 17th-century French royals, like King Louis XIV, who wore increasingly elaborate wigs to hide baldness and facial sores caused by the syphilis epidemic. The size of the wig indicated status and wealth.
• The "Creation" of the Indian Identity: Dr. West presents a profound irony: the American Indian boarding school system, intended to "kill the Indian to save the man" by eradicating tribal cultures, inadvertently fostered a unified "Indian" identity. By forcing diverse Native youth into shared experiences and a common language (English), these schools forged a collective sense of being "Indian" that hadn't existed on a continental scale before, uniting them through shared struggles.

Key Takeaways

Listening to this episode offers a critical, nuanced understanding of America's expansion, revealing it as a complex, often brutal "continental reckoning." It highlights that the making of modern America from 1850-1880 was profoundly shaped by events in the West, on par with the Civil War, and driven by a relentless pursuit of resources. The listener gains insight into the devastating consequences of disease and ecological destruction on Native American populations and the sophisticated, yet ultimately overwhelmed, Native horse cultures. The episode implores us to confront the actual, non-romanticized history to truly comprehend the American identity and its foundations.