Joe Asks Derek, MPMD About Exposing Liver King's PED Use

Episode Summary

Main Topics

This episode primarily dissects the highly publicized exposure of Liver King's steroid use by Derek (More Plates More Dates), challenging his "nine ancestral tenets" and all-natural claims. The discussion delves into the ethical implications of fitness influencers misleading their audience, contrasting Liver King's physique and narrative with genuinely natural, disciplined individuals like Paul Sklar and even early Ronnie Coleman. Joe and Derek critically analyze Liver King's apology video, highlighting its perceived insincerity and self-serving justifications. The conversation also explores the specific performance-enhancing drugs he admitted to using, the physical realities of such extreme muscle mass, and the calculated viral marketing strategy behind his persona.

Key Discussion Points

• The Liver King Deception and Derek's Exposure: Joe Rogan opens by immediately referencing Derek's video exposing Liver King, noting he wasn't surprised given Liver King's "preposterously jacked" physique in his 40s. Derek explains that many "big names" in the industry were privately assured by Liver King that he was natural, making his public confession particularly impactful. The "nine ancestral tenets" and practices like "sunning his balls" were framed as a unique, viral marketing spin, but ultimately unsustainable without chemical enhancement.
• Critique of Liver King's Apology Video: The hosts play and dissect Liver King's apology, where he admits to steroid use but attempts to justify it by claiming he wanted to spread a message to "hurting people" suffering from depression, anxiety, and low ambition. Both Joe and Derek find this justification highly problematic and disingenuous, arguing that lying about his physique's origin undermines any positive message and sets an impossible standard for those trying to emulate him naturally. Derek also notes the apology contradicts the meticulously planned inception of the Liver King brand.
• Natural vs. Enhanced Physiques and Genetics: The discussion draws a clear line between natural potential and chemically enhanced results. Joe points to Paul Sklar as an example of an incredibly fit, natural 50-year-old whose physique is "feasible and possible," even noting Sklar had blood work done to confirm his natural status. Ronnie Coleman's journey is cited as another example, highlighting his impressive natural physique before he turned to steroids to compete at the highest level, demonstrating what "hyper-responders" can achieve naturally versus the exponential growth with PEDs.
• Speculation on Ab Implants and Marketing Tactics: Joe raises the popular speculation about Liver King's abdominal muscles, questioning if they were implants or surgically etched. Derek, while acknowledging the debate, leans towards them being legitimate muscle growth, albeit significantly enhanced by steroids. They further discuss the elaborate nature of Liver King's marketing, including his media team and deliberate efforts to gain exposure, such as attending UFC and Canelo fights and attempting to get on prominent podcasts.
• Specific PEDs and Contradictions: Derek explicitly details the specific performance-enhancing drugs Liver King admitted to using, including Winstrol, Deca, and high amounts of GH (Growth Hormone). He emphasizes that these substances are far from "ancestral consistent" and even go beyond basic HRT (Hormone Replacement Therapy), directly contradicting the core message of his brand, which was built on natural, primal living and diet for optimal health and hormone output.

Notable Moments

• Interesting Story/Anecdote: Derek recounts an incident in Vegas where one of Liver King's producers approached him, seeking attention, highlighting the calculated nature of Liver King's media strategy and his team's efforts to expand his reach.
• Surprising Fact/Revelation: Derek reveals that Liver King was using specific, potent steroids like Winstrol, Deca, and high amounts of GH, which goes far beyond what many might assume for someone claiming to be about "ancestral living."
• Memorable Exchange: Joe and Derek's incredulous reaction to Liver King's apology stating he used steroids to "spread the message to bring awareness to the 4,000 people a day who killed themselves," ridiculing the idea that lying about drug use helps prevent suicide.

Key Takeaways

Listeners will gain a deeper understanding of the realities behind extreme physiques in the fitness industry, learning to discern between natural potential and steroid-enhanced results. The episode underscores the ethical responsibility of influencers and the detrimental impact of dishonesty, especially when promoting health and wellness. It offers a critical examination of an influencer's attempt to justify deception, revealing the calculated business aspects behind viral personas. Ultimately, the conversation highlights the importance of authenticity and skepticism when evaluating claims made by public figures in the fitness world.