Joe Rogan Experience #1583 - John Terzian & Craig Susser

Episode Summary

Main Topics Discussed

• The devastating impact of the COVID-19 pandemic restrictions on the independent restaurant industry in Los Angeles.
• The perceived arbitrary and illogical nature of government mandates, particularly the closure of outdoor dining.
• The significant financial investments made by restaurateurs to comply with health guidelines, only for their businesses to be shut down.
• The immense human and economic cost, focusing on the livelihoods of employees (dishwashers, busboys, servers) and the potential for increased homelessness.
• A comparison of LA's strict policies with other cities (like Austin, TX) where restaurants and events are operating with safety protocols.
• The lack of communication and consultation from government officials (Governor Newsom, Mayor Garcetti) with industry experts.
• Allegations of political motivation and a desire for control driving government decisions, rather than pure public health concerns.
• The lack of scientific evidence linking outdoor dining to significant COVID-19 spread, as admitted by county officials in court.
• The "slippery slope" of government overreach and the precedent it sets for easily shutting down industries.
• The targeting and harassment of businesses (e.g., increased health inspections) for speaking out against government policies.
• The absence of strong lobbying representation for independent restaurants, leaving them vulnerable to large fast-food chains' influence.
• The broader implications for the future of California, including the exodus of businesses and residents from the state.

Key Insights & Memorable Moments

• John Terzian shared that he personally spent $250,000 to abide by health rules (glass partitions, UV lights, patios) only for his restaurant to be shut down.
• Craig Susser highlighted the irony that restaurant owners, who are accustomed to strict health department regulations, are now being "crushed" and "picked on" while other businesses like malls remain open.
• The frustration of restaurant owners learning about closures and policy changes from the news, with little to no direct communication from government officials.
• The revelation that LA County health officials had to admit in court that they had no evidence of a nexus between outdoor dining and COVID-19 outbreaks, with all their cited studies relating to indoor dining.
• The comparison between allowing unmasked eating on airplanes and shopping in crowded malls, yet prohibiting socially distanced outdoor dining.
• John Terzian described feeling like LA is "like a third world country right now" due to the encampments and perceived dictatorial actions like threatening to shut off water and power to those who host parties.
• Joe Rogan shared the success of venues like Stubb's BBQ in Austin, which uses rapid testing to allow hundreds of people to safely enjoy events.
• The story of a city official suggesting a restaurant "kick them out at 9:50" for a 10 PM curfew, illustrating a profound lack of understanding of the industry.
• The "blacklash" for speaking out: John Terzian's restaurant was subjected to daily health inspections after he publicly criticized officials.
• The moment of feeling "alive again" and "doing something wrong" when dining indoors in Austin after months of LA restrictions, highlighting the psychological impact of the shutdowns.

Notable Quotes or Revelations

• "We're the rule followers... and now we're the ones that are being crushed or being picked on." - Craig Susser
• "I've personally spent 250,000 abiding by the rules that were set forth... and then to just kind of be shut down is really really difficult." - John Terzian
• "It's about the employees. It's about the dishwashers and the busboys and the servers that live day-to-day on the money that they make at the restaurant." - John Terzian
• "They refuse to communicate to any of us... We find out about it from the news." - John Terzian
• "No one else wants to speak about it, everyone's too scared of backlash." - John Terzian
• "There's no evidence that shows that outdoor dining is contributing significantly to the COVID spread. There's no evidence they actually had to admit that finally in the in court." - Joe Rogan (summarizing the court ruling)
• "This guy Newsome wants a name for himself and no one's calling him out." - John Terzian
• "We had no representation... The representation for the restaurant community is driven by big fast food chains." - John Terzian
• "Power is very intoxicating for people and when you have some sort of a situation like this where you have this pandemic where you can semi justify the wielding of this power people will do it with impunity." - Joe Rogan
• "They keep talking about is the fact that the reason they shut down all of the restaurants was because they couldn't inspect 20 to 30,000 restaurants on a regular basis because they just didn't have the manpower, yet they're at his place five six nights in a row." - Craig Susser (highlighting corruption)

Overall Themes

• Government Overreach and Incompetence: A strong theme of frustration with perceived arbitrary, unscientific, and poorly communicated government policies that appear to lack practical understanding of the industries they impact.
• Economic and Human Devastation: The profound and immediate impact of shutdowns on the livelihoods of hundreds of thousands of restaurant workers and the potential for long-term economic damage and increased homelessness.
• Lack of Transparency and Trust: A significant breakdown of trust between local government and business owners, fueled by what is seen as a refusal to engage, provide scientific justification, and even outright lying.
• Abuse of Power and Political Motivation: The recurring suggestion that some government actions are driven by political gain, fear of being seen as "not doing enough," or a desire for control, leading to targeted retaliation against critics.
• Erosion of Freedom and Social Fabric: Concerns about the precedents being set for government control, the loss of social gathering spaces, and the potential permanent alteration of the cultural and economic landscape of places like Los Angeles.